Welcome to 201k.com - A Commonwealth Perspective.

Hard to believe you wouldn't think she had a point. Think of how quickly Maria Sharapova edged out the Williams sisters as America's sweetheart, even though she's Russian.

Frankly, I think Serena and Venus are total babes, but I don't find many who agree with that assessment.
 

Ouch. She rings true, and from a perspective I must say I hadn't considered. Once again I find myself ashamed to be, as my boyfriend calls me....

Quite White.
 

Plplplplpl...

First of all, the television has tons of black babe sexual icons. Take a look at Music Television and all its clones. It's wall to wall "urban booty".

Yet somehow we can imagine this writer complaining about that--objecting to "objectification" of black women--the very thing she's openly pining for in her Salon piece.

First she insinuates that black men are jerks because they supposedly prefer white women, then she calls white men racist because they supposedly prefer white women. "Men are jerks" would have sufficed, we think.

It also would have had the benefit of being more accurate than the disgruntled sociology she conjures up in response to the fact that the makers of "Wedding Crashers" didn't include a black wedding.

Are there no non-black women in the world pining for decent men? No non-black ugly ducklings dining alone somewhere, ignored in favor of the hot chicks (of all colors)?

Dickerson is on much better ground when she admits to envy of sexually-liberated women. Oh wait--she doesn't exactly--she makes sure to let us know she's above that, now. Hmmm.

Sexual envy--and honesty--would have been good directions for the piece. But racism?

Let's look at her description of herself:

I wore uncomfortably tight clothing. Makeup and sheer pantyhose. Nail polish. Jane Fonda for daaaaays. My heels were so legendary, my nickname was Spike. Oh, Debra dressed shamefully in the summertime.

Don't know about you, but we're not thinking her skin color was the problem. Who was she trying to entice, Andrew Dice Clay?

We know plenty of guys who'd have been HAPPY to objectify a woman dressed like that--of any race. Sorry Debra didn't happen to run across any in her travels. Then again, she might have scared him off by telling him he "should be so lucky".

She can't have it both ways.
 

p.s., we have a (white) friend with the major hots for Serena Williams.
 

I think to try and dissect this essay for logical consistency is beside the point. Dickerson has written an essay with great emotional honesty, even as she leaves herself open for this kind of criticism. She's inconsistent. So what?

I saw Wedding Crashers and didn't even notice when I watched it that there were no black weddings, and other than a black butler (whose big laugh line was when he was watching television and referred to the shows as his 'stories'), there weren't any black people. You can deconstruct that as racist, but I think the truth is that the people who made that movie excluded blacks unconsciously.

And isn't that almost worse? The movie was the way it was because it goes without saying this isn't the sort of movie that black people belong in. No action sequences, no guns, no drugs? No blacks.

So even if Dickerson is all over the place in this essay, at least grant her the emotional validity of her primary argument. She grew up in a society where she was never 'that girl over there' but 'that black girl over there.' Race consciousness is forced on black folks, in a way it never is on whites.
 

Create a world in which the demand logical consistency is supplanted by the notion that all "honest" perceptions are valid, and you end up with a government and media that recognize no distinction between reality and spin--one that would supplement a report that the sun rises in the east with a counter-argument from a right-wing think tank.

It seems to us imperative that everyone be held to standards of logical consistency--even black women. Frankly, we're surprised anyone would disagree with that.

As for "great emotional honesty", we're not convinced Dickerson has done that, either.

I want all men to want me. I want to be seen as desirable, if I actually am. As available, if I actually am. As fuckable, though you should be so lucky...

Are the words of a woman who wants to be a sex object? Or one who kind of wants to be one, but knows better?

That's the article we would have liked to have seen.
 

Those "Black babe icons" you see on music videos are not real life women. Do you think the White women around you look like the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue? No. So that type of portrayal of women is irrelevant.

What is relevant is how people in real life treat Black women vs. women of other races. And the fact is, most White men would simply sleep with one of those video hos but they would not pursue them in public like at a wedding, for example, or in a real relationship. Neither would they help them with their bags at the airport if there was a White woman nearby to help.

I do agree with this comment meglet made though: "Are there no non-black women in the world pining for decent men? No non-black ugly ducklings dining alone somewhere, ignored in favor of the hot chicks (of all colors)?"

That was a good point. In general though, the author is not talking about Black ugly duckings being passed over for hot women. She is talking about beautiful Black women being invisible, often for less attractive women of other races. To me, it seems crazy that a man would pass up/ignore Beyonce for a less conventionally attractive Roseanne Arnold, just because Beyonce is Black, but things like that happen all the time.

201K said: "p.s., we have a (white) friend with the major hots for Serena Williams."

The fact that you had to point this out is telling of our society in general. The question becomes: do YOU think Serena or any other Black woman is pretty? Does the general public think that? You had to find your one friend who has the hots for Serena and presented his admiration for her as if it was an amazing fact. And that just illustrates the author's point that to find a Black woman attractive has to be an exception to the rule in American society. Why is that noteworthy that a White man finds Serena hot? I personally think there are beautiful people in all races and don't understad why people need to qualify beauty by race.

I'd be interested to know what race of man the author married. Since she says she gave up on holding out for a Black man, I suspect her husband may be of another race. If he is, I find it kind of ironic that she is complaining about how White men in a movie do not pursue Black women. I am not saying that what she writes about is untrue, but I would say that if her husband is White, it seems as if she got what she wished for.
 

Those "Black babe icons" you see on music videos are not real life women. Do you think the White women around you look like the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue? No. So that type of portrayal of women is irrelevant.

Right. That's the point. Dickerson starts out ASKING to be one of the objectified sex objects in the montage.

What is relevant is how people in real life treat Black women vs. women of other races. And the fact is, most White men would simply sleep with one of those video hos...

Right. See above.

...but they would not pursue them in public like at a wedding, for example, or in a real relationship. Neither would they help them with their bags at the airport if there was a White woman nearby to help.

You don't know that. In fact, you know the opposite. The author herself, from our reading, is married to a non-black man.

I do agree with this comment meglet made though: "Are there no non-black women in the world pining for decent men? No non-black ugly ducklings dining alone somewhere, ignored in favor of the hot chicks (of all colors)?"

Actually, we said that.

That was a good point.

Thanks!

In general though, the author is not talking about Black ugly duckings being passed over for hot women. She is talking about beautiful Black women being invisible, often for less attractive women of other races.

You don't know that, either. All you know from her article is that she felt passed over. Do you know if she is beautiful?

All we have is her description of how she dressed.

To me, it seems crazy that a man would pass up/ignore Beyonce for a less conventionally attractive Roseanne Arnold, just because Beyonce is Black, but things like that happen all the time.

Really? Show of hands, people: Beyonce or Roseanne Arnold?

201K said: "p.s., we have a (white) friend with the major hots for Serena Williams." The fact that you had to point this out is telling of our society in general.

Actually, it's telling you that a previous commentor mentioned them. We were responding.

The question becomes: do YOU think Serena or any other Black woman is pretty?

Really? So if we don't find Debra Dickerson attractive we're racist?

How do you know we're a man? Or white? Or straight? If we were a black lesbian would we be required (or exempt) from finding Debra Dickerson attractive?

Perhaps you could write out some rules for attraction we could all follow.

Does the general public think that?

Presumably they're awaiting your rules.

You had to find your one friend who has the hots for Serena and presented his admiration for her as if it was an amazing fact.

No, as we pointed out, that was in response to a previous comment which you obviously didn't bother to read. But thanks for the cheap shot. DO keep looking for easy generalizations with little or no basis. That's truly the path to enlightenment.

Or, at least, it works great on Fox News.

And that just illustrates the author's point that to find a Black woman attractive has to be an exception to the rule in American society.

No, not really. That's your point. Dickerson had a little trouble defining hers--which is the problem we had with her article. Ultimately it seems that her point was that she was hurt that Owen Wilson never picked her up at a wedding. Unfortunately she presumes he never picks up ANY black women at weddings, which neither she nor you know to be true.

Anyway, in her spikes she may have been too tall for him.

Why is that noteworthy that a White man finds Serena hot?

See, you really should have read all the comments before making this point three times.

I personally think there are beautiful people in all races and don't understad why people need to qualify beauty by race.

Good for you! Maybe we should be required to intermarry. Wait--what about the NON-beautiful people in "all races"? What about them? We need more rules!

I'd be interested to know what race of man the author married. Since she says she gave up on holding out for a Black man, I suspect her husband may be of another race. If he is, I find it kind of ironic that she is complaining about how White men in a movie do not pursue Black women. I am not saying that what she writes about is untrue, but I would say that if her husband is White, it seems as if she got what she wished for.

God save liberalism. We're doomed.
 

Actually, 201K made the Serena comment in respone to the first poster and not as an example of exceptionalism. Overall, I think Ms. Dickenson makes the same tiresome mistake that a lot of intellectuals make - she turns her personal disappointments and foibles into a general social/political statement. I agee that her emotional honesty, while interesting, should trump, shouldn't trump logical consistency.

Also the hotness notion is valid because she goes into detail about how hot she was when she was around the age of the "Wedding Crasher" women, but, unlike them, she didn't get any play.
 

Oops, that should be ...shouldn't trump..." What I found interesting as well is the idea that "Soul Food" represented an some sort of alternate universe as if it was unreal. While it is fiction, the underlying stuff is true. Black men are romancing, sexing, marrying and so on, black women of every hue and size. I'm sorry that she didn't get any attention from her white colleagues when she was hot but I don't think you can make a general representation from such a specific and personal circumstance.
 

I'm sorry that she didn't get any attention from her white colleagues when she was hot but I don't think you can make a general representation from such a specific and personal circumstance.

We got the distinct impression that her heart just wasn't in the "sex object" business. THAT dichotomy would have made a GREAT article. We though that's where she was going, originally, and were disappointed when she veered off.
 

Sorry for the serial posting but another thing struck me as odd about the article. She complains about Black, for lack of a better word, representatives, who sometimes complain about the lack of Black presence in films, but, isn't she making the same complaint about "Wedding Crashers" (e.g. no black weddings crashed or, more accurately, no black women wooed)? Why is her complaint valid while the others aren't? Because it reflects a personal experience? Maybe she should include herself in her offer to set them straight.
 

One needs to be the change one wants to see in the world, to paraphrase ... someone.

She is experiencing all the slights racially because she looks at others that way, imo.

True, we are minorities and we have specific experiences different from the mainstream. But I would not consider it at all an insult that Owen and Vince did not want me. I don't want them either.

The whining and begging tone of the article is very disturbing to me. What does she want, Owen and Vince to say, OK, WE WILL GANG BANG YOU!! DAMN!!

I found the article embarassing and I agree with the poster who said, "Ms. Dickenson makes the same tiresome mistake that a lot of intellectuals make - she turns her personal disappointments and foibles into a general social/political statement."

If she kept in mind that these are her *personal* experience and her *personal* interpretations of events, maybe she would have kept this bit of logorrhea (sp?) to herself.

In my experience, some men are a little timid about crossing the color line, but given a little encouragement, they cross it.

I have black female friends who have ONLY dated white men their whole lives. I have dated different races. She doesn't speak for me and I want that to be known.
 

AWESOME comment. Come back anytime.
 

Oooh, right on, Anonymous 2:45! I read Dickerson's latest article with my mouth open in shock. Here is a supposedly intelligent black woman UPSET because Vince and Owen didn't con any black women into bed? (Nevermind the fact that she is seeking sexual validation from a freaking movie?!) Articles like this one get published because they fulfill some sort of liberal wish fulfillment if you ask me. It reinforces the dichotomy of black low self-esteem and helplessness as opposed to full equality and self sufficiency. I mean, cmon..how many women, white/black/asian/hispanic and other couldn't write a similar piece for various other reasons which have nothing to do with race? I've only dated white men all my life, never been ignored in a line, etc. Maybe, she wasn't as hot as she thought she was? Maybe, her personality sucks? Or maybe, she was oozing desperation from her pores and that's why they all kept clear? However, to try to force ALL black women into her pathetic little box is outrageous, and as Anon 2:45 stated, she's speaking for herself and ONLY herself!

PS Debra Dickerson is married to a well-to-do white man, and her two children are blonde and blue-eyed. I know this because she wrote an equally embarrassing article about them not too long ago. The photoshopped face in the accompanying picture of the article is Debra. She's not at all ugly, but nor is she exceptionally beautiful.
 

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NEW RESPONSE: First of all, relax. Secondly, I concede that you guys (since you like to refer to yourself in plural form) made the second comment about ugly ducklings. But other than that, just because your comment about your White friend is in response to someone elseÕs doesnÕt make it immune from response from me, does it?
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...but they would not pursue them in public like at a wedding, for example, or in a real relationship. Neither would they help them with their bags at the airport if there was a White woman nearby to help.

You don't know that. In fact, you know the opposite. The author herself, from our reading, is married to a non-black man.
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NEW RESPONSE: The women is talking about people she has encountered in general, and, trust me, I know plenty of men who would only sleep with a woman but not be serious with them in a relationship, regardless of race. So if she says the people she has dealt with in life would not pursue a Black woman or help her with her bags, we canÕt negate that just because itÕs never happened to us. And if weÕre going to talk about what people know and donÕt know, we are all just insinuating from her comments that she is married to a non-black man. So far, you donÕt KNOW that either. DonÕt accuse me of making assumptions when you do the same.
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In general though, the author is not talking about Black ugly duckings being passed over for hot women. She is talking about beautiful Black women being invisible, often for less attractive women of other races.

You don't know that, either. All you know from her article is that she felt passed over. Do you know if she is beautiful?

All we have is her description of how she dressed.
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NEW RESPONSE: Well, if you use google image search, you can get an idea of what she looks like and I think she is more beautiful than some other women I have seen. I wouldnÕt put her up there with Gabrielle Union or Sandra Bullock, and her google photos might not do her justice, but I would consider her in the beautiful realm. Plus, the picture in the article with the Black womanÕs face superimposed on the woman dancing with Owen Wilson resembles her so I presumed that was her. Whether or not she is beautiful is my subjective opinion so it doesnÕt mean anyone else here has to thinks he is beautiful. But I think the authorÕs point is that if we are to compare her to say, Roseanne Arnold, she should be able to compete in that competition and should not be disqualified simply because of her skin color.
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To me, it seems crazy that a man would pass up/ignore Beyonce for a less conventionally attractive Roseanne Arnold, just because Beyonce is Black, but things like that happen all the time.

Really? Show of hands, people: Beyonce or Roseanne Arnold?
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NEW RESPONSE: Maybe you and your friends here would vote Beyonce, but, like I said before, some people would think there is no contest because Roseanne is White.
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201K said: "p.s., we have a (white) friend with the major hots for Serena Williams." The fact that you had to point this out is telling of our society in general.

Actually, it's telling you that a previous commentor mentioned them. We were responding.
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NEW RESPONSE: I donÕt care if you were responding or generated the comment yourself. You still said it so what's wrong with me responding?
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The question becomes: do YOU think Serena or any other Black woman is pretty?

Really? So if we don't find Debra Dickerson attractive we're racist?

How do you know we're a man? Or white? Or straight? If we were a black lesbian would we be required (or exempt) from finding Debra Dickerson attractive?

Perhaps you could write out some rules for attraction we could all follow.

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NEW RESPONSE: I never said you were a man and no one in this thread has accused anyone of being racist, so relax. In fact, I am a proponent of the idea that it is natural (maybe not so much in-born but through social conditioning, certainly) for people to want to date within their own race. This comes up when friends who go on dating websites note that under physical preferences of a woman, White men most often click a) White only, b) White, Asian and Latina, or c) every race but Black. I don't know what the latter two are all about but I do have trouble being mad at someone who prefers their own race only when it comes to dating. What I don't understand is how people who believe that we should date our own cannot recognize beauty when they see it in whatever form. That is all my comment meant. I said nothing about how other people should think. So there is no need for you to make assumptions about some imagined ÒruleÓ system I might have unless I stated I had one.
In addition, you donÕt have to be a man to find a woman attractive. Women talk about how beautiful other women are all the time and there is no sexual or ÒlesbianÓ connotation when that happens. And gay men will comment on womenÕs beauty too so me asking you what you think of Serena does not mean I know what your demographic profile is.
My question was in response to the Òwe have a friend who thinks Serena is hotÓ as if that is exceptional. Even if you were responding to a previous comment, it came off that way (like it was a big deal that you had a White friend who thought that) so I responded by asking if you and the general public would consider someone like Serena hot, or is it so inconceivable to think that people in general would. The point is, no one has ever had to say, ÒI have a friend who thinks Nicole Kidman is hotÓ. That is understood and would not raise eyebrows. But the comment of, ÒI have a friend who thinks Serena Williams is hotÓ seems like such an anomaly in nature. No one here has to think Serena and Debra are hot. The problem seems to be that that even if a Black (or other minority) woman meets the standards of beauty portrayed by the media, people still act surprised that a minority woman would be deemed more beautiful than a White one.
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Does the general public think that?

Presumably they're awaiting your rules.

You had to find your one friend who has the hots for Serena and presented his admiration for her as if it was an amazing fact.

No, as we pointed out, that was in response to a previous comment which you obviously didn't bother to read. But thanks for the cheap shot. DO keep looking for easy generalizations with little or no basis. That's truly the path to enlightenment.

Or, at least, it works great on Fox News.

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NEW RESPONSE: Again, I read the posts (unless there is some secret page elsewhere) and I donÕt think posters have to respond to every single previous post made. I can respond to your response canÕt I? Or is that a rule here IÕm not aware of? YouÕre the editor, so let me know. And speaking of rules, I never said that my OPINION is a rule everyone should follow.
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And that just illustrates the author's point that to find a Black woman attractive has to be an exception to the rule in American society.

No, not really. That's your point. Dickerson had a little trouble defining hers--which is the problem we had with her article. Ultimately it seems that her point was that she was hurt that Owen Wilson never picked her up at a wedding. Unfortunately she presumes he never picks up ANY black women at weddings, which neither she nor you know to be true.

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NEW REAPONSW: You seem to be fixated on the Wedding movie part but she talks about other incidents in her life that support my interpretation of her article. She talks about how beautiful she was at work and said she would be more beautiful than some other women but still passed over. She also talks about how her co-workers lamented the idea that there were no single women around (right in front of her as she was single and dressing to impress); the Dunkin Donuts incident where she was invisible to the man in front of her who asked the White man behind her to go ahead; and the struggling with luggage incident on the plane where people swarmed to help and elderly White woman but not her; and her general comments about wanting to be Òf***ableÓ like other races. If that doesnÕt scream ÒIÕm mad because Black women should be pretty too!Ó I donÕt know what does.

Personally, I donÕt think the Dunkin Donuts and luggage occurrences were good examples of how the average White man responds to Black woman. I would be very surprised if that happened regularly and think those are probably isolated incidents. It is plausible that her co-workers did not want to date a Black woman but the idea that Black women donÕt like flowers and such is a new one to me. And how those people acted on the plane or at Dunkin Donuts was (although possibly motivated by race)just rude.
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Why is that noteworthy that a White man finds Serena hot?

See, you really should have read all the comments before making this point three times.

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NEW REPONSE: IÕve already responded to this.
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I personally think there are beautiful people in all races and don't understad why people need to qualify beauty by race.

Good for you! Maybe we should be required to intermarry. Wait--what about the NON-beautiful people in "all races"? What about them? We need more rules!

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NEW RESPONSE: Again, you are making a big stretch for no reason. That is my opinion. Why does that bother you? Secondly, where do you get this intermarrying suggestion from? I have not indicated my opinions on that topic or my personal demographic profile. There are a lot of people who think beauty can be found in all races but for other reasons think intermarriage or interracial dating is wrong. So try to take some of your own advice and not make generalizations or cheap shots.

NEW RESPONSE: In response to another post, if someone is writing an article based on their personal experience, all they can do is speak for themselves, and intelligent readers will know that she does not represent ALL Black women. One can only represent themselves when using words like ÒIÓ and ÒMeÓ. Sure, the author does use the term ÒBlack womenÓ when talking about how they are heartbroken, or when seeing a good Black man, they assume he is with a White woman. But people need to be given some leeway when talking about groups of people. Otherwise, every sentence would have to start out: ÒNot all, but someÉÓ. I know she has had a different opinion and experience from a lot of Black women, but that goes for every individual who wants to express themselves about their experience belonging to a group. Maybe since this is not a common topic to occur in a mainstream forum, people in the group of Black women might be afraid the general public would think all Black women are begging to be desired by White men and never get any play from men. But I suspect that a lot of readers will take the article as it is: one womanÕs experience.
 

continued...NEW RESPOSE: although I don't believe that this happens to all Black women and that all Black women feel this way about a dumb movie, I do not fault the author for writing about what she thinks and feels without worrying about what other will think. Even I don't agree with eveything she says, I have seen other variations on this theme written but I think this author presented her feelings most honestly.
 

One needs to be the change one wants to see in the world, to paraphrase ... someone.

Gandhi. And I agree with many of the things you said. I understand that Debra grew up in a different age than I (she's got almost two decades on me, it appears) and possibly in a different climate (I'm in a large metropolis), but I still think she's succumbed to a bit of racism herself because of unfortunate situations. It's not much different from, say, my mother (and I'm a bit ashamed to admit this), who's known maybe 3 Jewish people in her life, has had bad experiences with all of them, and from that derives Jewish=bad. Nothing I can say will change her opinion. And this from a white woman who married a black man--so it's not part of some pan-racial/ethnic prejudice she has. I understand how this sort of thing happens and that it's hard to tell someone that opinions derived from their personal experiences aren't valid.

I expect more from a journalist on Salon.com, though. Debra is taking her personal experience (but only part of it, more on that later) to create a 1:1 ratio: "once I worked with white men who didn't want to date me even though I looked right tartish, so no white men want to date black women, at all, ever" Then she effortlessly dismisses what appears to be her own hypothesis near the end of the piece, admitting that she's actually married a non-black man. But then, according to her, she was never going to get a black man, either--and why this is, is slightly unclear; we have to go back to the beginning of the piece to where she discusses relationships between black men and women to even get a hint and even then she claims it's something even black women never really discuss amongst themselves. If black women are so undesirable as all that, it's a wonder the race has survived to 2005 in America! Who's dating them then, the Mung peoples? It's all very confusing, and I can't figure out what her point is.

I also see many cinematic representations of cross-race relationships (probably a higher percentage than actually exist in the real world) so I don't know what she's on about there, either. She should wait for "Rent" to come out this fall.

I'm not saying that black women don't have to deal with inaccurate perceptions of their race--be it oversexed or castrating--but it is not an omnipresent, suffocating force.
 

Debra Dickerson has issues. Just check out this essay she wrote for Slate: Racist Like Me
 

Obviously, the lengthy comments from Anonymous above speak for themselves. Unfortunately.

For the record, 201k is written by several people (of both genders). Ergo the "we".

God help liberalism. It ties itself in knots of gibberish while the totalitarians slowly wrap their tentacles around us.
 

please dont quote gandhi in the name of a weak point:

I'm not saying that black women don't have to deal with inaccurate perceptions of their race--be it oversexed or castrating--but it is not an omnipresent, suffocating force.

who are you to say so?

ugh.
 

Booker Rising
News site for black moderates and black conservatives

has interesting commentary about Debra DickersonÕs article.
http://www.bookerrising.blogspot.com/
 

Looked at Debra Dickerson pic through Google Images. Appears to be an average looking 46 year old woman.
 

I think we need to drop the liberalism stuff. While I disagree with Dickerson's overly precious article, "liberalism" is not the issue here.
 

I think we need to drop the liberalism stuff. While I disagree with Dickerson's overly precious article, "liberalism" is not the issue here.

Liberalism is not the issue with Dickerson's article--it's the issue with some of the comments. Knee-jerk 101-isms in place of critical thinking.

One commenter postulated that "emotional honesty" is more important than logical consistency. Another couldn't keep a continuous strain of logic from one comment to another--while tying herself up in knots of progressive bumper-sticker cliches.

We've watched in anguish as the brilliant liberal thought of the 20th century has given way to the "dueling emotional honesties" of today. And while progressives have busied themselves with their academic circular firing squads, right-wing apes have taken over the world.

You bet your ass this is about liberalism.
 

True enough. Liberalism does play a part. Dickerson sometimes strikes people as someone pleading for acceptance and validation, but this time from white liberalism, as opposed to the standard stereotype of the "self-hating" black conservative. Her piece here reinforces that impression.

It is also not a new pattern. In her book "The End of Blackness" she spends numerous pages lambasting real and imagined conservative "nearderthals" with gratuituous references to everything from the KKK to treacherous "neocons" but heart-rendingly laments that liberal Hollywood producer Steven Spielberg did not see fit to include blacks in "Saving Private Ryan". Whoa... serious stuff.

It's the same pattern repeating itself- Dickerson pleading for more acceptance, more attention from bastions of white liberalism, even if it takes the form of two white slackers in a make-beleive movie.
 

editor,

Just because you categorize others comments as representative of current liberalism doesn't mean it's about liberalism. It's just your opinion of those comments. Granted, you're using your interpretation of those comments as tactic to bash what you see as modern liberalism but that's another story.

lennox,

You're making the same mistake interpreting the article that Dickerson did writing it. She elevates a personal quirk into a "woe is me" whine and you elevate it into anti-liberal stand.
 

Just because you categorize others comments as representative of current liberalism doesn't mean it's about liberalism. It's just your opinion of those comments.

Yes. You can pretty much assume that the things we say are our opinion. When we're revealing Absolute Truth there'll be an asterisk and a footnote.

Once upon a time it was standard practice to teach students not to say or write "I think" because, of course, if one is saying or writing something it's obvious who thinks it. But now, with reality a matter of opinion--imaginary WMD in Iraq, ghostly votes in Florida and Ohio for George Bush, illusory riches from the privatization of Social Security, and perceived sexual slights to disingenuous upper-class black women--we're obliged to GRAMMATICALLY follow suit, and constantly affirm for each other that our thoughts are our "feelings".

Because what really matters is our feelings. IMHO, of course. Others may disagree.

As for the comments, it's not our fault if a poster doesn't understand the logical end of her remarks, nor be aware that they follow a pattern of disintegrating liberal cerebration whose presence--and ramifications--are all around us.

"I keep saying the things that got me an "A" in American Studies but they aren't working!"
 

No need to be a smartass.

Anyway, while your overall point about the problem of reality, or more accurately, facts, being a matter of opinion or spin is fine, it's certainly not unique to modern liberalism or even anything new. As you indicate in your second paragraph, the chief absuers of reality are the "conservatives" in power and unfortunately, throughout history personal belief, or as you call it, feelings, have often triumphed over facts/reality.

Also, you make way too much of the article. It's not an example of "Liberals Fiddling While Washington Burned". It doesn't deserve to be elevated to that level. It's just a silly throwaway emotional whine that's not emblematic of liberalism, black women, and so on. Does that mean it shouldn't be logically consistent or that Dickerson's feelings are more important than reality? No, but it's not an either/or scenario. Dickerson's feelings, while honest, don't make much sense. Like a lot of messy emotional diatribes, it's hardly surprising that it's not logical and, despite the intellectual pretense, I doubt she intended it to be.
 

As we said above, our lament for liberalism is not about Dickerson's article--it's about some of the comments posted here.

Sadly, modern liberalism created the language and system the apes in power used to take over the world. The notion that "emotional honesty" is more important than "logical consistency" starts out as a well-intentioned effort to consider the perceptions of others and ends up as the philosophical underpinnings for letting the American Enterprise Institute "rebut" the concept of global warming--or for a President to suggest that "intelligent design" be taught alongside evolution in schools.

It's how a Republican senator can get away with responding to the Downing Street Memo by saying "I don't believe in it".

Even more sadly, we see no reason to hope the coming generation of progressives understands this--let alone will be able to do anything about it. Frankly, they seem to us to be muddle-headed whiners.